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The Rediff Interview/ Salman Khursheed

'I am not disappointed or dismayed, Sonia Gandhi is my leader and I support her decision'

If he is hurt, he has concealed it admirably. Dethroned Uttar Pradesh Congress chief Salman Khursheed has lost none of his composure, affability or, indeed, his dignity. He cogently articulates his views without wrath or rancour at his replacement, in sharp contrast to some of his senior colleagues (Sitaram Kesri, Dr Balram Jakhar, Kapil Sibal) who have lashed out at Congress chief Sonia Gandhi for being marginalised. His conduct under fire smacks of poise and pedigree.

Nevertheless, Khursheed's analysis of the political developments in Uttar Pradesh, notably the Congress's affairs in the state, has insight and a refreshing tendency to touch the party's soft underbelly, warts and all. What is remarkable is his apparent loyalty to party chief Sonia Gandhi whom he defends with every resource at his command. At the same time, his loyalty to the party does not deter him from speaking out on issues which he feels should be addressed if the party is to regain its lost glory.

Clad in white cotton kurta-pyjama, Khursheed is quite at home in the Akbar Road headquarters of the All India Congress Committee even if he has no officially-allotted office. He shows his informality as he opens party secretary Selja Kumar's office (who is not there) and makes himself comfortable. "Shoot," he tells Tara Shankar Sahay, with a smile. "I am ready to answer all your questions."

The Congress leadership has dumped you unceremoniously as UPCC chief weeks before the party's organisational polls. Why are you defending Sonia Gandhi when she has replaced you with a virtual non-entity, Sri Prakash Jaiswal?

Look, I don't care for what people have to say about me. When our party chief appointed me as the UPCC chief, I had told her that she was welcome to utilise my services in any way she wanted -- whether in Uttar Pradesh or in Delhi. I cannot have separate standards if it is now being said that I have been recalled. I hope others will learn from this example. My detractors are free to express themselves.

Uttar Pradesh is a crucial state and Sonia Gandhi could have at least waited for the organisational polls to get over before making such a move?

As far as I am concerned, I have told Madam Gandhi that we will be facing assembly polls in the state within a year. And in order to fight the elections, we need clear-cut ideological, economic and social programmes because nobody in UP today has a programme. People have merely taken certain positions and postures which I feel is not going to deliver the goods. Now, it is a question of giving something new, something attractive, something meaningful to the people who are fed up of empty promises.

Secondly, we have to channelise all our energies into fighting the BJP and the Samajwadi Party who are our main enemies. I have made it clear to Madam that if internal bickering and lack of cohesion continue in our Uttar Pradesh unit, we will not be able to take on these parties. This is not the time to point accusing fingers or to question what our strategy in UP was during the last two years. I believe I followed the right strategy and tried to understand the problems of the people. And now that we are nearing the polls, there is a need to sink our differences and present a united front to our foes.

The party leadership must ensure that there is no confusion about command and control and there should be no internal sabotage. I think it is a good time to put in a person who can exude a certain degree of acceptability to everybody in the party.

Your explanation is fine but there is perceptible disillusionment among the Muslims in UP over the issue of your removal. Noted Muslim scholar Kalbe Hussain has resigned in protest and many among your community members are saying that they are being cold-shouldered. Are you defending the indefensible?

Well, yes, Kalbe Hussain resigned in protest and there are others who have been dismayed. You see, they joined the party fold when I took over as the UPCC chief. They feel that I have been stopped mid-stream. But I have appealed to them to stand strong for the Congress.

As far as the timing (of my removal) is concerned, I think it is desirable to have a new PCC chief before the party elections are over. The whole thing has to be supportive of the party chief.

State-level apex changes entail the putting up of a new team and the party has to start all over, isn't it?

I am opposed to this concept of overhauling the entire party apparatus once a new PCC chief comes in. The aim should be to derive the maximum possible benefit from the existing setup for the entire organisation and not effect changes aimed at buttressing one's own constituency.

Let us be frank. You have no resentment against Sonia Gandhi?

(Animatedly) Oh, let me say it emphatically -- absolutely not. I am not disappointed or dismayed. She is my leader and I wholeheartedly support her decision. Let me also make it clear that I was a party to her decision in the change.

Did you suggest a replacement?

Well, yes. I suggested Narain Dutt Tiwari's name.

Will you cooperate with the new incumbent, Sri Prakash Jaiswal?

Of course. I say so for the umpteenth time.

The Congress has claimed that the minorities have got the best deal from it. But Ahmed Patel, A B A Ghani Khan Chowdhury and now you have been eased out from positions of responsibility, however you may choose to defend the move. So how are you different from the BJP whom you accuse of being anti-minority?

If these Muslim leaders in the Congress have other duties, I think it is sheer coincidence. There is no commonality of approach to their cases. Ghani Khan Chowdhury in West Bengal was at the end of his tether, not tenure, and he is now a special invitee in the Congress Working Committee. He has a strong base in Malda but he is very old and infirm.

Ahmedbhai is a very dearly loved person who got the maximum number of votes when he got elected to the CWC. But he resigned as AICC treasurer because of Gujarat politics of which he is part and parcel. He has a strong base in Gujarat. One cannot speculate on why he decided to resign.

Is your party chief aware that a wrong message has gone to its Muslim members?

It is all a question of reality and perception. I think we have to manage perception. Ultimately, what counts for Muslims is our programmes and policies. Mohammed Ali Jinnah ate pork and drank and did not offer namaaz, did not speak Urdu and yet a large section of Muslims followed him before Partition because they thought he was their benefactor. Similarly, a large section of Muslims followed Maulana Azad, Rafi Ahmed Kidwai and Zakir Hussain because they believed in them.

Will the new UPCC chief contain factionalism in the state?

There is no factionalism in UP. There are a handful of people who are holding our party to ransom.

But these people made your life tough, didn't they?

No, I clipped their wings to a great extent.

Are you referring to the group headed by Jitendra Prasada?

I am not taking names. But what I am saying is apparent to all.

Are you looking forward to a place in the CWC since Sonia Gandhi has talked about giving you substantial responsibility in Delhi?

That is Madam's prerogative.

What is your vision for the Congress?

I prefer more transparency in party affairs. Also, we want a party which is compatible with the information technology age, not the jaded stuff of yesteryear. We are for a substantive, scientific strategy for the removal of poverty. We want a leadership which is a symbol of hope and we cannot have a better leader for this vision than Sonia Gandhi.

The younger generation in the Congress is getting impatient. Young India should not be made to wait much longer. This feeling is pervasive in the younger lot of our party leaders. But Madam Sonia has also got a traditional, conservative constituency, so we hope our aspirations are fulfilled at the earliest.

The Rediff Interviews

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