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The Rediff Interview/R Chokkar, former TMC chief whip

'I don't know how we can talk about Kamaraj rule by supporting the DMK or ADMK'

R Chokkar, former chief whip of the Tamil Maanila Congress in the Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly, lives on Lloyds Road, where the All-India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam office is also located. But ask him whether his house is near the AIADMK office and he quips, "I don't want to be anywhere near the AIADMK. I am on the opposite side!" Indeed, he is across the street!

Chokkar became a celebrity in Madras when he decided to quit his seat in the assembly on moral grounds in protest against his party's decision to support the AIADMK's candidates in the forthcoming by-elections in the state.

Shobha Warrier met him yesterday for an interview that was interrupted umpteen times by telephone calls just before he left for his constituency, Virudunagar. Excerpts:

Why did your party choose to go with the AIADMK?

It was the wish of the majority of the office-bearers.

Did the cadre not want an understanding with the AIADMK?

A party can be divided into four sectors other than the leader. Next to the leader come the office bearers, a committee consisting of 15 people, followed by the executive committee consisting of 70-80 people, and then the cadres. But the fourth and most important sector is the neutral people who are not members of the party but have some faith in it and vote for it. According to me, the last group is the most important. When we take a decision in situations like this, we should consider the fourth aspect as the most important one. Only then can a party survive and grow.

I personally feel that our leader [G K Moopanar] did not like to take a decision of this sort at all. Because he is a great man, he gave importance to the feelings of the committee than his own. He consulted the office-bearers several times. I am not an office-bearer, yet he called people like me and listened to our views also.

A majority of the office-bearers wanted to go with the ADMK and all the members of the executive committee were not consulted. I feel that in the executive committee, 50 per cent may not have wanted to go with the ADMK. At the cadre level, only 25 per cent might be willing to go with the ADMK. That means 75% may not agree with this decision at all.

Now, who voted for us? The neutral voters who liked the leadership of Moopanarji and who knew and understood the circumstances in which the party was born. I am sure 100% of them will not like a move like this.

With this decision, don't you think the very existence of your party is going to be questioned, because it was born as a reaction to the Congress decision to align with the AIADMK in 1996?

Yes, you are right. That is what I cannot digest. The party is going away from the very reason for which it was born. When I had a chance to talk to our leader on this issue 15-20 days back, I told him that this was only a by-election and elections are going to be held only in three out of 234 seats. The next assembly election for all 234 seats is only 11-12 months away. If we commit ourselves to some party or the other now, we will not be able to get out of it. So I felt we should not commit ourselves now.

At the same time, we also admit that our party does not enjoy the support of a majority of the people. So we will not be able to form a government independently. But we can be a deciding factor in the victory of either the DMK or ADMK. We hold the trump card. Without the support of the TMC, either of these major groups cannot win the elections. So I told Moopanarji that we could remain neutral or we could support the candidates of minor parties even if they are part and parcel of either front. We can tell the people also that our aim is to form a third front. We still hope that such minor parties will come out of the fold of the DMK and the ADMK in the 2001 election and support a third front.

TMC is the only party in Tamil Nadu today that can take the initiative in forming a third front. TMC should initiate and the Congress should support. Automatically, the CPI and CPI-M will join and there are ample chances of the PMK and MDMK also coming out of the DMK fold to form the third front. The ADMK or DMK will not give many seats to the minor parties as they enjoy 30% of the votes. They would like to form the ministry on their own. Of course, there is nothing wrong in thinking like that.

But as the third front, we can form a coalition government like we have at the Centre, and in a coalition government each partner will have a berth in the ministry. Coalition government is an accepted concept now.

What was Moopanar's reaction to your suggestion?

He told me to talk to the other office-bearers. I discussed my point only with some of the office-bearers because I knew many of them had already decided to go with the ADMK. So I could not talk to them or convince them. I still feel they could have waited at least till 2001. The TMC is not contesting any of the three seats, and they are only going to support the ADMK candidates. What will the party gain out of this?

So your party, the TMC, is going to die...

No, no...

But the TMC was born only because of your anti-AIADMK stance, was it not? Otherwise, you would have continued in the Congress.

I will not say that the party will die. I will say that this is going to be a major setback. But I feel we still can correct ourselves in future.

Do you expect a correction?

Yes. I live on hope. Hope is the mainstay in life, is it not? But if everyone remains silent, people will not know the truth. I hope people will realise that not all are for the present arrangement.

Now how will the TMC face the people of Tamil Nadu and answer their questions?

Maybe they miscalculated that people can be taken for a ride. That will not happen because even villagers are politically aware today. Unfortunately, the educated sections of society do not come out openly and voice their opinion. They do not come out to vote either. That will change soon, I hope. That should change. I think the neutral electorate will come out when people like us make such mistakes. They will come out to vote asking what did you do? We are going to teach you a lesson.

Do you expect a split in the party, now that you have openly come out against the decision and resigned?

No, no, I don't expect any split. I have resigned as an MLA, but I have not resigned from the party. I still love my party. I still adore my leader. I feel our leader has been forced to take such a decision at this juncture. I am still confident that soon this wrong will be corrected.

What will the others who are unhappy with the decision do? Will they remain quiet?

A majority of the cadres who are unhappy with the decision will continue to remain in the party with pain in their hearts. I do not want anybody to go out of the party. I have voiced my displeasure and I think that is enough.

What did Moopanar say when you decided to resign from the assembly?

Even before I sent my resignation letter to the speaker, I met Moopanarji and told him that I was feeling very bad about the whole thing. I couldn't digest it. He asked me not to do anything in haste. But my conscience asked me to quit.

Why?

Because I secured the post of MLA telling the electorate certain things. They voted for me because they believed in me, in what I said. I should not go back on my words after getting the mandate. It is like betraying the electorate. That should not happen in a healthy democracy.

How long did it take you to come to this decision?

This has been in my mind for the last one and a half months. Till the last minute, till the announcement came, I was hopeful. I strongly believed Moopanarji would not take such a decision despite all the pressures. But he has sacrificed himself.

Don't you feel he has sacrificed the very ideals of the party also?

(Sighs) Yes, when he sacrifices himself, everything else goes too.

Did you tell him that this was a wrong decision?

Oh! That is too blunt a question. I don't use such words. I expressed my feelings in a strong way and I was clear in my view.

Many newspapers are now speculating that Moopanar will campaign with Jayalalitha. What do you say?

I really don't know whether he will go with her to campaign. But when he has extended his support, naturally he is expected to campaign for their candidates too and help.

I really don't know how we can talk about Kamaraj rule or third front rule by supporting the DMK or ADMK. My view is that we should not align with any of them, though I personally like the present chief minister [M Karunanidhi] and his way of functioning. Of course, there are many faults in his government also. But in the last four years, no opposition party, including the ADMK, has raised its finger against him. Many people do not understand my stand. I like the chief minister, but I am a loyal supporter of Moopanarji.

Did it pain you when the party decided to support the AIADMK?

It really pained me; it did. I felt extremely sad.

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